Engine Failure at Flight Level Options

[lehbird]

The last 3 flights I have flown I have had the same problem. I depart normally, climb normally (w/ VNAV) get to flight level, the EGT gauge flashes for the left engine and it shuts down. I try to restart, the FF increases but the EGT decreases. Then when I get back on the ground, I try to restart, the EGT increases to 600+ and starts flashing.

I have attached some pictures for clarification.



Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

Attached File(s)

 Image_090410_002006.jpg ( 482.04K ) Number of downloads: 90
 Image_090410_002025.jpg ( 511.2K ) Number of downloads: 71

 

[Paul Edwards]

Hi Dave

It seems the engine is being mistreated and shutting down. A flashing EGT is due to the temp going over limits.There are several areas that suggest it may be worth while trying the tutorial flight. The first is the TRP (Thrust rating panel) has not been set. This means the auto throttle will have no power limit, although I would expect an engine failure to occur before reaching a high cruise level. If you plan to control engines yourself, then an eye must be kept on T&P's (temps and pressures). Secondly, your overhead panel shot shows you have no fuel pumps on. If there's fuel in the tank then you should have the corresponding pumps on. Although the engines can and will draw fuel with out the aid of a fuel pump, you really do not want to fly in that set-up. Third, I'd look up in the manual on how to balance fuel. Your fuel remaining in each of the tanks is not good! If you do loose an engine then you need to make sure that the fuel remaining over the 2 wing tanks remains balanced. I hope this helps.

Regards

Paul

[Michael_C_Heyer]

The last 3 flights I have flown I have had the same problem. I depart normally, climb normally (w/ VNAV) get to flight level, the EGT gauge flashes for the left engine and it shuts down. I try to restart, the FF increases but the EGT decreases. Then when I get back on the ground, I try to restart, the EGT increases to 600+ and starts flashing.

I have attached some pictures for clarification.



Any help would be appreciated.

Well, well, as Paul said: RTFM

[lehbird]

Thanks for the response Paul. With regard to comment about abusing the engine, that really shouldn't be the case as this occurs with VNAV on so the engines are under computer control. As far as fule pumps, I did have them on, but shut them off to see if that would help with the restart.

You mention the unbalanced tanks; I don't know if this is releted to my problem or not, but I couldn't get them to balance. I opened the cross feed valve (on the pedastal) and has pump on for a while and off for a while, but no "crossfeeding" would occcur.

The bottom line of my confusion of this:

I am not a newbie to the MAddog, I have flown probably 70-80 flights with it. I admit I do not understand the systems as well as I should, and I start the sim with my engines runnig......but for 67 flights that hasn't presented ANY problem.

Now all of a sudden I am having this consistent problem; so something is different.

in addition, after my engine falure last night, I continued to fly to my desination (over 2 hours of flight) on one engine. So this issue is only affecting the left engine.


Thanks,

Dave

[Paul Edwards]

Post some pics during the climb/cruise. It may help to find the reason for the left engine failure.

Regards

Paul

[lehbird]

Here's what it looks like during climb.

Attached File(s)

 Image_090417_231036.jpg ( 420.24K ) Number of downloads: 55

 

[lehbird]

Here's what it looks like after the failure

Attached File(s)

 Image_090417_233657.jpg ( 459.64K ) Number of downloads: 54
 Image_090417_233703.jpg ( 507.85K ) Number of downloads: 36

 

[comanche]

Here's what it looks like during climb.

No solution just comments

1. NO MODE LIGHT "ON" on TRP (and NO EPR LIMIT READOUT) see Manual Vol1 Chapter 17/10
2. At 35000 feet Altitude +3500 ft/m POSITIVE CLIMB ON MCP
3 FD's OFF , A/T & A/P ON

Mauro

This post has been edited by comanche: 18/04/2009, 7:17

[comanche]

Here's what it looks like after the failure

No solutions just comments (on strange settings)

1. NO MODE LIGHT "ON" on TRP (and NO EPR LIMIT READOUT) see Manual Vol1 Chapter 17/10
2. FD' OFF
3 OUT OF FUEL situation (central fuel pumps OFF)
4. APU ON
5. Emergency power ON
6. Emergency lights not armed
7. Pneumatic pressure zero (hydraulic pumps?)
8. Yaw damper OFF
9. Antiice OFF
10. APU on ECON
11. Pitot heat on F/O


Mauro

This post has been edited by comanche: 18/04/2009, 7:14

[Paul Edwards]

Not sure if there is a reason you prefer flying without selecting a rating on the TRP. Although as you stated before you have VNAV selected and the FMS controlling the EPR there could be a situation where the engine is taken over the limit. Changes in wind speed/direction. Have you tried climbing and cruising using the TRP? The TRP is a MEL item, so although you can fly without it, the MEL does state that "d) Procedures are established to verify engine power settings" also c) EPR Limit Mode of the auto throttle is placarded inoperative, and is not used on the Series 80. Are you monitoring the engine instruments during the climb? I'd really not use the auto throttle if you do not use the TRP. Also the pictures seem to be not from the same flight. I know you state that you not a newbie but your fuel management really does need help. It appears between the 2 pics your centre tank absorbed all your wing tank fuel.

Regards

Paul

This post has been edited by Paul Edwards: 18/04/2009, 7:12

[lehbird]

Ok I will look into these things tonight. (I have 3 kinds so alot going on during the day )


But I am still mystified on why only the left engine is strickened with this problem. After the engine faulure on the left I have had no problem flying 1,000 miles just on the right engine. So I would think if it is a power mismanagement issue, the right side would eventually be affected; but it's not. Therefore, I am lead to think something is set incorrectly for my left engine and not for my right.

I would appreciate any thoughts you have on that.

Thanks for your continued help,

Dave

[Newbie]

Here's what it looks like during climb.

No solution just comments

1. NO MODE LIGHT "ON" on TRP (and NO EPR LIMIT READOUT) see Manual Vol1 Chapter 17/10
2. At 35000 feet Altitude +3500 ft/m POSITIVE CLIMB ON MCP
3 FD's OFF , A/T & A/P ON

Mauro

Supply one in position On ,and one in Off.

[Paul J]

Dave; I wish I could supply an easy answer to your problem, too, but I can't. I understand you've been flying "this way" for 60+ flights without issue. I just think you've been lucky! You are definitely not flying by the book, (and that's often been the cause of an aviation disaster)!. There are no bugs within the Maddog which will result in an engine failure when she's setup properly and flown properly. You obviously have a "good" installation, so I'm suspecting the startup situation and/or your deviation from correct procedure is where the problem lies. My recommendation, (for what it's worth) - is to start the FS with no weather, at Seattle Tacoma using the default Cessna 172: pull the mixture to kill the engine, shutoff all switches including the ignition, and save this flight as the default flight. Restart the sim and go to that flight. Now that you're sitting there with everything off - change the aircraft for the Maddog. Make sure everything is cold and dark. Save this situation:. Exit the sim. Now - fire up the Manager and put a check in the "Start FS" box and then close the manager. In the closing process - select the situation you just setup along with "cold & dark". Once you are in the sim - go through the checklists as if you have passengers lives at stake. Then go fly the aircraft. If this doesn't fix it - document your procedure, with screenshots, and continue this post. As you can see - there are a good number of people here who will help you, and a number of them are MD-8X flight crew members.

This post has been edited by Paul J: 15/05/2009, 2:31