Procedures for CYYZ KATL KBHM KBNA KBOS KBTR KBWI KCLE KCMH KCVG KDAL KDBQ KDCA KDFW KDSM KDTW KEUG KEWR KFLL KIAD KIAH KIND KJFK KLAX KLEX KLGA KLGB KMCO KMEM KMIA KMKE KMSN KMSY KORD KPDX KPHL KPIT KPVD KRDU KSAN KSDF KSEA KSLC KSTL KTPA KXNA

KORF, KXNA, KDSM, KSDF, KLEX credits to Adam (adamant365)

Click to view attachment UPLOADED APRIL 02, 2007

Extract to: Flight Simulator 9\MADDOG2006\Routes

New procedures are on hold indefinitely.

Thanks to Terry Yingling for all source data: PlanePath, and also thanks to Dan Downs for files from his PMDG Procedures collection, available at AVSIM.

Please post any issues/questions/concerns here. I can't fix it if you don't tell me about it.

Thanks for the help Brian! Once I finish my ATP written and CFI crap...i'd love to help. Once this ProMaker gets fixed, i'll get some stuff in the West goin.

Thats cool man, good luck

This is just one of those things, it can be really boring and time consuming, so you just do it a little at a time...

Otherwise ya burn yourself out until ya HATE it.

My plan so far has been major destinations w/alternates...next up will probably be BWI/IAD/DCA...

At any rate, ya know, even if a person just does one or two fields, their homebase or nearest major, it helps add to the total...

Also, THANK YOU LEONARDO SH for the ProMaker !!!! I love it !!!

Yeah, I need it! Taking it Thurs Morn!

Anyway, I'll more than likely do BIL, BTM, BZN, SLC, LAS, PHX (if you do the ones from PMDG they might already be done ).

ProMaker is an awesome idea, it just needs to be fine tuned!

Just wanted to point out, they can be used as a starting point, but...most are very bare in terms of missed approaches, sid/star transitions, and even at that, have leg types that the Maddog can't deal with...

Though running them through ProMaker and at least setting the VISIBLE flags is a great start...

what do the "visible flags" do? also, this could be a GREAT tool, if it could work with PMDG too. we'd have some great things going if this great addon benefits another.

It assures that each fix so labeled shows on the ND....it's a long story why that's even an issue, lol....but that's what it does...

Technically, they are compatible with PMDG, there just a bit simpler, in terms of leg types, etc...the NG and 744 FMS is a bit more capable of doing tricks than the old Maddog...

Run Replace (Ctrl+H) in notepad one one of these procs, replacing the term FIX VISIBLE with FIX, and you'd have a perfectly compatible PMDG file...

DC area now up

Brian,
Kudos for the hard work so far...For my first attempt, I will do my hometown airport, KLEX. In fact I just finished it in about 15 minutes (not much to it really, but DL does fly an MD-88 out of Blue Grass and into ATL and return once daily, overnighting in LEX). This file includes RWY 4/22 approaches (ILS & RNAV), all missed approaches, and all the transitions. Also includes CLEGG1 arrival with IIU and CVG trans. I didn't do any of the procedure turn approaches over the markers because I don't know how to do the proc. turns yet. Maybe if I figure it out, I will include them. Anyway, next up, KSDF...AA and DL have scheduled -82/88 into there daily as well...By the way, if you'd like to include this file in your post at the top, fell free...just give me credit
-adam

Click to view attachment

Adam,

Glad to have ya

Looks pretty good, A couple of small corrections/tips if ya don't mind :

CVG and IIU transitions on the arrival didn't have VISIBLE flags, pretty much add these to every fix, just saves losing them doing a DIR TO, etc..

HYK as the anchor fix should also be visible, even if vectors are expected...seems more consistent with the charting.

It's a good idea to set a speed of 170kts AND Glide height for the FAF, this sets the speed for all missed approach turns and helps the FMS draw a more accurate picture.

It's also a good idea to set a standard speed of 200kts for standard holds, in addition to the 1 minute legs, helps size em down a bit.

If you play with the RNAV procs, make sure to check the hold notation for leg distance, they were off by one mile.

HYK holds are at 3100ft.

Also a good idea for your approach transitions to set some at or above constraints....for example with the ILS 22 SADDL fix I'd set it at or above 3200.

____________________

OK so that sounds like I'm picking apart your work, and I don't want you to think that, but let me warn ya, the more you get into it the more addicting it seems to get...

ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: The best solution many times to get a track to intercept, etc, is to actually hand edit the procedure...be advised that ProMaker will replace these types of commands with pseudo-fixes it generates, and they are not always a one for one match with the hand written instructions. If you load a proc that has lots of these type instructions, like KATL above, make sure you have a backup, or the first time you click save, all the instructions are replaced.

My first attempt. ESSA Stockholm/Arlanda, Sweden. I haven?t had any chance to test it yet so be warned

Brian,
Really, not picking them apart at all...I call it constructive criticism. Being my first attempt, I expected there to be inaccuracies. As for the hold altitudes, I didn't even realize it when I started but, the charts I have (from naco.faa.gov) are from even before the runway realignment (27 OCT 2005 to 24 NOV 2005 !!!). I guess I'll get the updates and make a few changes. Really though, thanks for the help. I guess as I do this more, I'll develop a system (I'm very procedure oriented...I work in a hospital lab, I have to be). And I can tell you what, I can understand how it can be addicting. I've never seen a program like procmaker before. It is cool. Anyway, thanks again. With a little work by us all, we can have realistic prcedures for the whole Maddog community. I hope to someday soon have procedures for all of the US airports that have MD-82/88 flights.
-adam

.

Thank you Brian and others !!!

Hey Brian,
Here's SDF if you'd like to include it. I'm pretty sure I got this one prettly close to perfect this time
-adam

Click to view attachment

Adam,

Just about perfect is right ! Great job !

Only a few small things:

Be careful using NAVAID flags if there is a fix of the same name in the FIXES list. The reason being, the FMS will default to the FIX over the NAVAID, and ya end up with a FIX in the procedure with no VISIBLE flag. Check the RDSTN1 arrival for examples.

Only other fix was with the LOC29 approach, this:

APPROACH LOC29 HOLD AT FIX LAANG

should read like this:

APPROACH LOC29 FIX VISIBLE LAANG HOLD AT FIX LAANG


That's it. Everything else looks really good, thanks man

did a new Promaker come out, allowing west of W099???

Nope

Doing them the old fashioned way

ouch, sounds rough

Nah, it's not bad, it can actually be allot quicker, just have to be more careful.

All good so far, about to upload LGB as #40

BAH ! Found an error in the KPDX file, that renders BONVL5 west unavailable, I will update the file shortly.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Hey Brian,
Do you take speed or something? How do you hand-write all of these procedure files in such a short time? Really impressive and much appreciated! Thanks, I'm very busy right now, but if I get a few minutes, I'll work on a few to upload...
-adam

Red Bull gives you wings !



Nah, I took a voluntary layoff at the beginning of the month, so lots of spare time.

Plus, I'll be away for a bit in the beginning of April, so I wanna get as many done as I can before then.

HA HA HA!

Understood....well off to bed for me (I obviously work nights). I'll get up bright and early and maybe do a few AAL destinations...maybe AAY as well. You're right, when the spare time is there, this is a very addicting side-note to the actual flying bit...
-adam

Brian,
Here's DSM: Click to view attachment

-adam

Brian,
Here's kind of a lazy "quick-one"...XNA, only one runway, four total procedures. Later if I get a chance, DAY is the next up...
-adam

Click to view attachment

Brian,
I've gotten all of my charts for Europe (and most are as professional as the naco.faa.gov charts) from www.ead.eurocontrol.int. I don't know if the data is updated regularly, but as far as I know, it is rare that those precedures are changed at all. Anyway, there is a link to register on the left navbar "Login/Register". It's actually quite easy. If you have trouble registering let me know.
-adam

Eurocontrol charts are up to date. Create an login and start the 'PAMS Light' java application.
It is a bit of a struggle to find the charts (i.e. proper selection of the filters) but most European charts are there.

Thanks for the heads up guys, but, man, that site is awful, crashed FireFox twice....and sloooooow...

If that's all there is, well...I'll have to pass on it for now at least...sorry, I just don't have the patience for that

This is the official Swedish IAIP from Luftfartsverket, swedish FAA Well, actually the link points to the swedish airport information, not many are there? The major airports where you?d expect a MD80 to drop in are, AFAIK:
Stockholm/Arlanda
G?teborg/Landvetter
Malm?/Sturup
Lule?/Kallax
UME?
Stockholm/Skavsta.

http://www.lfv.se/templates/LFV_InfoSida_70_30____37002.aspx

Well... it's not that bad ....
Just set the correct filters and ...

Egbert,

I had no problems registering/navigating the site, it just took ages to load each selection I made, and also took down FireFox twice, I think Java was crashing/freezing/timing out waiting for data.

Hi Brian have a look to the Eurocontrol Site Eurocontrol EAD You must register first but its for free. There you can download alltime the latest charts for free in PDF.

That's the site we already were discussion here above ...

Of course Navigraph charts can be used. But those are quite expensive. Is there any site we can upload our procedure files to? Navdata.at doesn't seem to support the Maddog!

EDIT: Might be time for me to create a new site for these kind of files. Many add-on's are not supported by navdata.at

David,

For the time being, attach them to a post, and I'll get them included with the proper credits.

For myself, testing SP1 has taken priority at the moment, as I'm sure all will understand.

Yes sure, already started on some modelling for an ASP.NET C# website .

I have some problems by making new procedures for airports. I do not understand how to make a turn towards a specific direction. I have to make a little fictive FIX right of the "route" then the real FIX / Navaid if I want the procedure to take a rigt turn. Anyone who knows the correct way?

Brian,
Haven't gotten to Europe yet...here's ORF:

Click to view attachment

-adam

You forgot a few airports there
?stersund ESNZ
Kiruna ESNQ
Sundsvall ESNN

With these swedish airports I should be happy.

I'm going to start on some Norwegian airports. First will be ENZV and then ENBR and after the other larger airports will follow...

I would love to see some german airports as well, obviously. There is at least one MD-80 flying over my house few times a week, seems like a SAS one. Living near EDDK.

Best

Holger

Today i was spending my easter sunday working with the procedure maker, great tool!!! Right now I?m working on some procedures for EFHK (Helsinki) and i have one question: Is it possible to programm that when selecting a runway (arrival or departure) in the fmc that only the applicable procedures (sid and stars) will show up? So far i havent?t found out, or maybe is it ok also in real life.

Thank for any help

//Dotti

And I would love to see some ukrainian airports! Our UMAIR has some MD-80 in Kiev, Borispol - UKBB.
Thank you!

Good morning,

I tried to fix the Sid/Stars for Bremen ( EDDW ). But somehow some sid's doesn't show up e.g. EET8. I have no clue why it doesn't work

Perhaps could somebody take a look at it. Thanks.

Bodo

Bodo,

I only have had a brief moment to look, but I do see that you have used "KEEP TRK UNTIL" which I do not believe is a valid syntax for the Maddog.

Instead, if the desired track is known(i.e., runway hdg), use "TRK XXX UNTIL" where XXX is the desired track in degrees.

Brian and others,

great stuff you're doing here!

First a note on the Eurocontrol site: It's now available in a pure HTML version, so it shouldn't crash your browser any more. More information here:

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadcms/eads...p;Itemid=3.html

I haven't tried out the HTML version though -- only used the Java version once or twice, and that sure was a pain...

I've also started out on programming procedures... I'm doing LOWS (Salzburg, Austria -- some interesting procedures there, by the way, for those who haven't flown there), and I have a couple of questions that I hope someone will be able to resolve.

First, should a STAR begin with the waypoint that it originates at, or should it start with the next waypoint after that, the assumption being that you've already input the start waypoint? Maybe an example will make this clearer... there's a STAR at LOWS that starts at the RTT NDB and routes via CHIEM and a couple of DME-defined intersections to SBG VOR. When defining this STAR, should I include the RTT NDB, or should I leave it off and start with CHIEM, since RTT is probably going to be in the FMC route already, anyway? I'm asking because I've seen both styles in procedure files I've downloaded, and I'd like to know which is right.

Second, for navaids and intersections, is it preferable to define those myself in the procedure file (as a FIX), or should I pull them in as a NAVAID (in hopes that the AIRAC is current)? It seems a bit wasteful to redefine all of the waypoints when they're probably in the AIRAC already, but OTOH someone with an old AIRAC might not be able to use the procedures if they use recently defined waypoints. (The RNAV transitions-to-final that are now all the rage at the larger German airports come to mind... they use loads of numbered fixes called DS411, DS412, DS413 etc.) Or maybe I should compromise and define the intersections, but not the VORs and NDBs, in the assumption that the former will change more quickly than the latter?

And one more question (if I may...) -- does anyone know how the Maddog disambiguates between several NAVAIDs with the same name? I'm asking because Salzburg has a VOR named SBG and an NDB named SBG, and they're not colocated (don't ask me who came up with that). So if I pull those in via a NAVAID instructions -- what's going to happen? I'm going to play it safe and define both explicitly (they're called SBGVOR and SBGNDB in my file), but I'm curious anyway...

Oh, and Brian -- if you could check out my procedure file when I'm done, that would be great!

Cheers,

Martin

Martin,



I've taken a look at the chart from EADS, and I believe the transition you speak of, on the chart I see, is listed as:

FM TULSI via L725 to CHIEM->INSOL via T701 to SBG VOR

If this is correct, I think the best way to code these arrivals is to create each transition as a separate STAR, only because the STAR itself does not seem to have an identifier to name it as a whole.

I see the following transitions available:

TULSI
KPT
MUN
WLD
EGG
LNZ
BAGSI
RASTA

So I would do the following:

STAR TULSI FIX VISIBLE TULSI FIX VISIBLE CHIEM FIX VISIBLE INSOL NAVAID SBG
STAR KPT NAVAID KPT FIX VISIBLE TRAUN NAVAID SBG

etc. (though it would be a good idea to sort them alphabetically )

To answer your actual question, after my long winded comments , if a fix/navaid is listed on the procedure, it should be included. This will allow for the occasional "Proceed direct XXX than via the arrival" to be loaded directly from the ARR page of the FMS, without having to have the arrival transition entered separately.



I like to play it a bit safe. All fixes that are NOT specifically VOR's or NDB's get redefined in the individual procedure file. I agree, it may be a bit more work initially, but IMHO it allows for much greater flexibility, in addition to remaining compatible across different AIRAC cycles, as you mention.

The DS411, DS412 type fixes you mention are especially susceptible to eventual duplication, etc.

I'm considering eventually including VOR's and NDB's as well, when I find time to update the files here, as this then makes the procedures entirely independent of the AIRAC data, but I would agree that this is not entirely necessary.



Of this I am not sure, as I have yet to come across this situation. Davide ?



I'd be glad to. I wish I could find more time to write new files, but that hasn't been possible these past weeks, so at the very least I can help give advice from what I have learned so far.